by genesyx
peakhope wrote:
Whenever discussing co-ops, it's important to distinguish between "ease of play" and "ease of winning". I think you were asking about ease of winning, but I'm not sure, so I'll cover both, starting the issue that is more important to me: Ease/difficulty of play.
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You now have monsters that can't be hit in certain rings, monsters that cause fire damage, monsters that move irregularly, monsters that can hop over walls, etc. While none of this is "complex" for a gamer, it is quite a bit more complex than the base game. For some gamers, complexity is good, so that would be a win right there. For me, complexity itself is neither good nor bad. It's the decision points that matter.
Where the base game had very occasional choices about whether to play a card or not, the expansions forces that decision frequently. First, every turn you have to decide whether to discard a plain card to draw a wizard card. You really want the wizard card, but you might have to give up a good basic card to get it. Then, it seems like just about every turn, you have to decide whether to play a card now for decent effects, or to try to save it to get the most out of it later.
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Then there is the question of whether the expansion makes the game more difficult to win or not. For me, a co-op doesn't have to be hard to win. I can win 90% of the time and still enjoy it, as long as there is enough tension during most games. I want to feel like we might or might not survive, and as long as I get that, it's less important whether we actually do or not. I know for a lot of people, if you win more than half the time, it's too easy and not much fun.
.....
You now have monsters that can't be hit in certain rings, monsters that cause fire damage, monsters that move irregularly, monsters that can hop over walls, etc. While none of this is "complex" for a gamer, it is quite a bit more complex than the base game. For some gamers, complexity is good, so that would be a win right there. For me, complexity itself is neither good nor bad. It's the decision points that matter.
Where the base game had very occasional choices about whether to play a card or not, the expansions forces that decision frequently. First, every turn you have to decide whether to discard a plain card to draw a wizard card. You really want the wizard card, but you might have to give up a good basic card to get it. Then, it seems like just about every turn, you have to decide whether to play a card now for decent effects, or to try to save it to get the most out of it later.
.......
Then there is the question of whether the expansion makes the game more difficult to win or not. For me, a co-op doesn't have to be hard to win. I can win 90% of the time and still enjoy it, as long as there is enough tension during most games. I want to feel like we might or might not survive, and as long as I get that, it's less important whether we actually do or not. I know for a lot of people, if you win more than half the time, it's too easy and not much fun.
Thanks for the detailed reply! And while I was initially looking for "ease of winning", but your reply got me interested and looking in the other category as well :)
And I agree, it's better for a game to give you a tense fight for the win than rather be bothered about whether you win or not. It also makes the wins more satisfying with nail biters, or leave you with a feeling of " lets play again!" if you lose (Though usually a tense fight usually means you'd on the verge of winning/losing as well)... and judging by your reply I'm sure the game's hit the right marks for you :D
As of right now you almost got me sold on the game, but there's still 1 issue that still lingers in my mind.. As far as the base game is concern, apart from a few cards, there's no reason to keep any cards in your hand if you have a target to play them at, since you'd be refilling back up to your hand size so it's always better to play as many as you can. There's also never a need to be afraid of which card you "waste" since the discard pile is reshuffled when the draw deck runs out.
Would you say this "issue" still exist when adding the expansion? Sure there's wizard cards that gives more choices, but do the new monsters make the old basic cards less "play everything you can without a problem" ?